I was honoured to be asked to be a guest on the latest episode of the splendid Fifty Years of Shit Robots podcast. `The hosts, Matt and Stephen, have been running a special series on the original Star Wars movie, and — being a bit of a nerd — I had to correct them on a couple of points. This got so annoying for them that they invited me on the podcast and it soon turned into a kind of therapy session for me. Have a listen wherever you get your podcasts…
There are two authors named Mark Stay on Amazon and Goodreads. Which one am I?
TRANSCRIPT
Hello folks, I’m Mark Stay… Or am I?
If you pop on to Amazon or Goodreads you’ll see that there are two authors with the name Mark Stay. It’s not much bothered me before, but the other day I noticed that the other Mark Stay had a one-star review for their latest novel, On the Leaden Shore, and I thought I’d have a look and I discovered that the poor guy had received a not great review because he wasn’t me… That hardly seems fair on the other Mark, so, to be clear, this is me: if there’s magic and witches and, occasionally robots and spaceships, it’s probably me.
This other Mark is from the suburban Midwest of the USA and in his bio says he comes from a large religious family and he does seem to write about supernatural stuff, but from a Christian perspective. Here are his books…
Me? Well, I’m from London and no fan of religion so I guess that makes me the Anti-Mark Stay.
So, once again (and this time, demonstrated via the medium of these socks that my daughter bought me a few Christmases ago): dragons and wizards and shit: me.
Christian stuff: that’s the other Mark.
Me…
Not me…
Me…
Not me…
I hope that’s clear. Always read the author bio. And happy reading.
MARK: What’s the best happy accident of your writing career?
NADINE: I’d say that not reading the small print when I entered the city university competition, because, honestly, if I’d read the small print, then I would have read that: if you win the competition, you win a £2,000 bursary. And I know definitely back then, if I’d read that it was a bursary of the Creative Writing Masters, then I wouldn’t have entered because I’m thinking, I’m already working full time, you know, being a lawyer. But I was also teaching in the law school and I would do that in the evenings. So, I don’t want to spend any more time in a classroom. I give up my evenings as it is, you know, teaching in a classroom. Why would I want to go back? Why would I want to go back to school to learn how to write? So if I’d read the small print, I would not have entered. But because I did not read the small print, I entered and won the competition, did the Creative Writing MA, I and I wrote the Jigsaw Man, so… Is that a happy accident?
MARK: Absolutely, yes. It is. Absolutely. Fantastic. Yeah. Who reads the small print? Honestly, we all sign up to META and it says in there, you know, 17 pages down, we can steal everything you put up here. So yeah, anyway, enough of that.
Join me with bestselling author Tracy Buchanan on the livestream that looks at the little things that make a big differences to writers.
Tracy writes gripping thrillers that delve into the darkest corners of family, psychology and forensic investigation. Her books explore secrets, lies and the dangerous choices people make when pushed to the edge.
And, as a child, she crafted stories using cut-outs from her mum’s Littlewoods catalogues! She also runs one of the best writers’ groups on Facebook and is a brilliant advocate for authors. It’s going to be a really lively one, so pop the date in your diaries now!
MARK: What’s the thing that makes you think that you’re ready to start writing on a project?
NADINE: Because I’m a planner; once I’ve done the plan. If I haven’t done a plan and I’m like, well, yeah, it’s like… if there’s no outline, then I wouldn’t be comfortable writing. Because I know what would happen. I would just get to 20,000 words and then that would be it. I’ll just be… I don’t know what I’m doing with the story. But, and I say, it doesn’t need to be a, you know, a beat by beat by beat outline of the whole story. But it’s a general one. And once I’ve got that in place: okay, now I’m ready to start writing,
MARK: It kind of occurs to me, that’s the point in the story where you need to start making serious choices, story choices that have consequences. You know, the first 20,000 words you’re introducing people, you’re having fun, setting everything up. And then it’s like: we can start making serious decisions now. So it’s kind of scary, isn’t it? You don’t know where you’re going.
NADINE: I think that’s exactly it. I’ve mentioned this for my own podcast recently, I was writing this book, and I had a character called Nick. I didn’t have a plan for it. And, you know, the beginning’s, you know, all the set ups, that’s all the fun stuff. But then I got Nick into… Nick got released from prison, and then he went home. Now he’s sitting in his dad’s house, sitting in his dad’s kitchen. And to this day, he’s still there cause I’m like… I don’t know what to do with you now. I don’t know what. I don’t know what to do. So to this day, Nick is still sitting in his dad’s kitchen.
MARK: What small thing has made a big difference to your creative process?
NADINE: What I do now… Before I just used to write my first draft — and it sounds like a big thing, but it’s not, it’s a small thing — I write the first draft, and then after that, then do the rewrite, brief re-structure, whatever. That’s the second draft. But now I don’t. I write up to act two, and then once I finish act two in the first draft, that’s when I start doing the rewrite. Because now I’m doing the rewrite, I have a clearer idea of how… I’ve fixed everything now, so I know exactly how that last third is going to finish. And I started doing that. I think with… I think I did it with The Kill List, and I think it was just a timing issue I had. Like, a personal time finishing, I thought, I’m not going to get this done if I wait to finish it. I thought, let me just start rewriting it now. When I did that, I thought, this is a better way for me to work. So that’s what I do now.
MARK: And when you get to that two thirds point, you just plough on and get straight through to the end.
NADINE: Yeah, because I’m not thinking… When I’m writing that first draft, I’m already thinking, well, I already know I need to change this now. I need to change this character, put it in a different location, or I’m just going to get rid of that subplot. I just know these things aren’t going to work. And by the time I’ve done the second draft, I’ve already done that. And then I said, that last third is… I can’t say seamless, but it’s a lot smoother. I’m not fixing things.
MARK: Yeah, it’s so weird because I’ve just done that myself actually. You know, I’m talking about trilogies being hard. I got about I was 80,000 words on this, and the ending is there, and I’m kind of thinking, hmmm… And then I’m writing, I thought, ‘Oh, that’s what this is about!’ So I’ve realised, actually, what it’s about. So I’ve had to go back and sort of, you know, make changes. And now the ending just feels so much… Not, like you say, not easier, but I know where I’m going now. I know I’m going to do it. Yeah.
NADINE: You have a much clearer… There’s no debris in your path. That’s the best way.
MARK: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s a lot less cluttered, isn’t it?
MARK: Are your first drafts usually quite tidy and well structured, or are you still making big changes?
NADINE: They are the opposite of tidy and well structured. I will say that structured in the sense that… I stick very closely to that three act structure. So they’re structured in that sense. But in terms of it being tidy: no, they’re so messy. But I always say there’s freedom in the mess because I know that with the second draft I’m going to be fixing things and rewriting and restructuring. So no, that first draft is not tidy. But what I will say, I said it the other day to someone was that what I’ve realized is that my… the first three chapters of my books, they are relatively unchanged from the first draft to what’s finally put on the shelf. They very rarely… I mean, I’ll say I’ve changed a little bit in the editing process, but fundamentally those chapters one, two and three, and if there’s a prologue, they’re pretty much how they are from the very first draft to the end.