In a sort of podcast exchange scheme, I was delighted to be invited on Zoë Richards’ Write, Damn It! podcast (she, of course, came on my Creative Differences podcast last month).
We discuss self-publishing and the quirks of traditional publishing and… I also sound quite maudlin at points as I was in something of a low point when we recorded this as you’ll hear (though chatting with Zoë cheered me up no end). So if you want to hear me to sound a little bit like Marvin the Paranoid Android, then do check it out…
Mark Stay got a part-time Christmas job at Waterstones in the 90s and, despite being working class and quite lippy, somehow ended up working in publishing for over 25 years. He wrote in his spare time and sometimes those writings got turned into books and films, including the Witches of Woodville series from Simon & Schuster, and the 2023 Warner Bros. horror movie Unwelcome. Nautilus, the #1 Amazon Prime TV series, was based on his treatment.Mark was also co-presenter of the award-winning Bestseller Experiment podcast, which has inspired writers all over the world to finish and publish their books. Born in London, he lives in Kent with Youtube gardener and writer Claire Burgess and a declining assortment of retired chickens.You can find Mark here: https://markstaywrites.com/all-the-links/The Green Room can be found here: https://markstaywrites.com/the-green-room/And Creative Differences podcast can be found here: https://markstaywrites.com/the-creative-differences-podcast/His books: SF&F and horror: https://markstaywrites.com/books/ Robot Overlords, Gollancz, 2015The End of Magic, Unbound, 2019The End of Dragons, Unusually Tall Stories, 2024The End of Gods, Unusually Tall Stories, coming 2025The Crow Folk, The Witches of Woodville I, Simon & Schuster, 2021Babes in the Wood, The Witches of Woodville II, Simon & Schuster, 2021The Ghost of Ivy Barn, The Witches of Woodville III, Simon & Schuster, 2022The Holly King, The Witches of Woodville IV, Simon & Schuster, 2023The Corn Bride, The Witches of Woodville V, Simon & Schuster, coming 2025Film & TV:Robot Overlords, 2014, Tempo/BFI: https://markstaywrites.com/robot-overlords/Unwelcome, 2023, Warner Bros: https://markstaywrites.com/unwelcome/Nautilus, 2024, Moonriver, Disney, Amazon Prime and AMC (based on my treatment): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15286302/ Support the showJoin me on Substack – here – for more insights into writing and being published, as well as mindset tips and tools. You can subscribe to get access to much more from me, including workshops and coaching.If you would like to show your love for the podcast, please consider buying me a coffee through BuyMeACoffee.com. This gives you an opportunity to make a small, one-off donation – you are not committed to regular payments. Making the podcast earns me no money, and in fact costs me a fair bit, but I do it for the love, and because I have such fun talking with wonderful authors. Even if you can't afford to buy me a coffee, simply letting me know that you love the podcast means a lot to me. Please take a moment to leave a star rating, write a review, or share the episode with others you know who will benefit from listening in, or you can tag me in social media when you share an episode that you love with your followers.My website is http://www.zoerichards.co.uk where you can discover how you can work with me, and you can find me on TwiX and Instagram as @zoerichardsukAnd finally my debut novel, Garden of Her Heart, is out now and you can buy your copy here.Happy writing, and may the wo…
And don’t forget, you can watch my Creative Differences interview with Zoë here…
This month’s special guest Zoë Richards reveals the biggest mistake in her writing career…
TRANSCRIPT
MARK: What’s the biggest mistake you’ve ever made in your writing career?
ZOË: Doubting myself. So, many years ago, and I’m talking. I think, around about 22 years ago, Writing Magazine had an offer from an agent that you could send in up to 3000 words. So I sent off to her 3000 words, and she came back. And now I reflect backwards and it’s like, oh, she gave me such incredibly good advice, but I didn’t get the “Well done, Zoë, you are a Gold Star student.” So because because I was brought up with the coercive control of “you are not good enough unless you are the star student.” When I came home second in the year, I’m sure you can guess where this is going. Second in the year out of 145 kids and I said I came home I came second in geography, and my dad’s answer was, “What are you going to do next year to be first?” And there wasn’t a smile in that response. So I was always expected to be the best in class. So this agent didn’t make me best in class. So I believed I wasn’t a writer and I didn’t write for a few years. So I would say, anybody who gets rejection, remember, first off, if they give you a nuggets, store the nugget. You might not be able to accept what they’ve told you today, but at some point you’ll be ready to accept what they’ve told you. And she told me, was write what you know. I can tell that you’re writing something now that you don’t know anything about it. So either write something you already know about or go and research what you’re trying to write about. And I took it as being, I’m no good at writing. She wasn’t telling me I was no good at writing. She was telling me it was obvious I didn’t know what I was writing about. And they’re are two distinctly different things. So anyone listening who’s thinking, oh, I’m useless because I’ve had a rejection: what are they telling you? And then secondly, it’s only their opinion. And if you are 100% sure you’re right and you’ve written good stuff, keep going. But I think we’ve always got room to improve.
MARK: Now, listeners, if you’re thinking this is incredibly good advice where I can get more of this? You have a podcast, don’t you? So let’s give that a quick plug. Zoë, tell us about Write, Dammit.
ZOË: Well, yeah, it’s called Write, Dammit because I needed to remind myself to write, dammit. And I actually did the podcast because the government created something called Integrated Care Boards, and the one I worked for was told it was over establishment and needed to reduce its numbers. So a load of us were made redundant. Nobody’s ever made redundant in the NHS, so it was a bit of a shock to us all. And I was doing a job I loved with colleagues I adored. And so I thought, well, I can’t sit around and do nothing whilst I’m looking for a job and bear in mind; my kind of job, I was the only one in the country, so not the kind of job that you can get lots of work doing. So it was very, very difficult for me to find an identical job. I was having to reinvent myself. So what I did instead was start a podcast, and I learned what I could and discovered that if I could do seven, no, if I could do eight podcast episodes I was doing better than most because the majority of people stop at seven episodes or three months of running a podcast. So I said, right, I’m doing it for four months, and I’m going to do eight episodes. So we’re now on episode 127 and it’s 18 months old.
MARK: Yeah, this is episode three and I’ve still got the will to live, so I think we’re doing alright.
ZOË: Yeah, you’ve done one before though. I think you’ll keep this one going for sure.
Welcome to Mark Stay’s Creative Differences, a monthly livestream where I talk to writer friends about those little things that make a big difference to their craft and careers in the hope that we can give readers some insight to the creative process, and writers and other creative folk some practical advice that they can actually use!
For the next livestream recording on TUESDAY 19TH NOVEMBER, 2024, I’ll be talking to MIKE SHACKLE! Mike is the author of the LAST WAR fantasy trilogy and he writes crime thrillers as Michael Dylan. Originally from London, Mike Shackle has lived in Hong Kong, Singapore, Beijing, New York and Dubai before settling down with his family in Vancouver. In that time, he’s sold washing machines, cooked for royalty, designed a few logos, and made a lot of ads. Ideally, he’s happiest day dreaming over a cup of tea. I hope you can join us live!
This month’s special guest Zoë Richards reveals what she needs to know before she can start a writing project…
TRANSCRIPT
MARK: What’s the thing that makes you think you’re ready to start writing on a project?
ZOË: The thing that makes me say, just go for it: I’ve got to know what the ending’s going to be. Once I know where this is going. And I think, again, that goes back to reports that I used to write. So what do I want out of this report? I want the execs to give me 3 million pounds for autism services. I have to say, spoiler alert, I never got 3 million pounds for autism services for children. It never, never happened. Great report, Zoë, the best we’ve ever seen. No, we haven’t got any money for you. Yeah, that didn’t work. However, the process worked of knowing that’s my ultimate aim, that I need them to know that that’s what we need, what’s going to get me there. And so it’s the same thing when I’m ready to write. Once I know where I’m going,
Zoë is the author of Garden of Her Heart, and host of the podcast, Write Damn It! An experienced coach with more than 35 years working on mindset, Zoë shares a ton of practical advice for writers including how to deal with self-doubt and rejection.
WE DISCUSS…
How stand up comedy helped Zoë’s writing
How to rethink your attitude to resilience
Great tips for writing a synopsis
Writers’ flow and getting started each day
Building characters using their childhood trauma
How to get people to show up at book events, and much more…
I was delighted to chat with Sunyi and Scott on the splendid Publishing Rodeo podcast. We focused on trying to be positive in what can be a challenging industry, and I discuss the contradictions of publishing by contradicting myself several times! Just do as I say, don’t do as I do…
I recorded this fun interview with bestselling author Rachel Lynch before I left the podcast at the end of 2023 (I think there’s one more in the vaults to be released!). We chat about how she can bang out a first draft in six weeks, writing gripping openings, making characters relatable, researching PTSD, writing about the super rich and a ton more…
There’s a lovely bit in this week’s Bestseller Experiment podcast with novelist Julie Owen Moylan where she talks about writers wanting approval, ‘We want to get our homework marked.’ And it’s true, we set out as writers with dreams of our work getting great reviews and being loved by all… But one of the lessons you learn as soon as people start reading your stuff is that you can’t please everyone. It’s a fool’s errand and you’re much better off writing to please yourself first. And that can start by leaning into what Julie calls her ‘tiny, weird obsessions’. These are the things that you think no one will get. The thoughts, jokes and peculiarities that you think are completely unique to you. And they probably are, but that doesn’t mean others won’t understand. Because all those strange little idiosyncrasies are your voice. That’s what makes you unique and will make you writing unlike any other. Some people won’t get it, but those who do will absolutely love it. Be true to yourself. Be weird.
I saw a blog by a writer recently declaring that we should all aim for perfection. Their point being that once the book is out there, then you don’t have an opportunity to change it (which isn’t strictly true) and that we should all aim to make any book we write the best it possibly can be.
I agree that I want anything I write to be the best that I can do, but perfection…? Not sure it exists. And it can be the enemy of creativity, especially when you’re starting out. The idea of creating something as polished and perfect as your favourite author’s latest tome is intimidating at best, crippling at worst. Over time I’ve discovered that creating is a process of failing a little less each time. With each draft, each book, each script I’ve learned something that helped make the next one a little better. But it’s never perfect.
There’s a moment in this week’s interview with the brilliant Harriet Muncaster where she says she held off from starting a project because she wanted it to be perfect. Which meant for a long time she didn’t do anything at all. Then she eventually realised that, ‘If you don’t start something, then it never really develops.’ So if you’ve been putting off that novel, script, artwork, whatever, because you were worried that it wouldn’t be perfect then today’s the day to start it. It won’t be perfect. Nothing ever is. But as you work on it you will discover that it just might be better than you ever imagined.
Also in this week’s episode me and Mr D discuss being child-like and end up being very childish. And in the extended version I finally talk about my role in the Nautilus TV series and what’s happened at Disney+. You can listen to that by becoming a Chart Topper supporter here.
It was a delight to welcome back Sarah Moorhead to the Bestseller Experiment podcast this week. There’s a moment early on when she talks about creating great characters and how the ‘grit in the oyster makes the pearl’. I think the same can be said about Sarah who found herself in the perfect storm of her debut being launched in lockdown at the same time as she was dropped by her agent and publisher. There are few authors who could bounce back from that, and Sarah has done it brilliantly with her new novel The Treatment. Get inspired and have a listen/watch below and if you want more like that, there’s an extended version for podcast supporters where Sarah answers listener questions on resilience, self-belief, plotting, structure, why learning to write is like learning to drive and much more! You can get access to that and hundreds of hours of extra material by becoming a Chart Topper supporter of the podcast here.