In a sort of podcast exchange scheme, I was delighted to be invited on Zoë Richards’ Write, Damn It! podcast (she, of course, came on my Creative Differences podcast last month).
We discuss self-publishing and the quirks of traditional publishing and… I also sound quite maudlin at points as I was in something of a low point when we recorded this as you’ll hear (though chatting with Zoë cheered me up no end). So if you want to hear me to sound a little bit like Marvin the Paranoid Android, then do check it out…
Mark Stay got a part-time Christmas job at Waterstones in the 90s and, despite being working class and quite lippy, somehow ended up working in publishing for over 25 years. He wrote in his spare time and sometimes those writings got turned into books and films, including the Witches of Woodville series from Simon & Schuster, and the 2023 Warner Bros. horror movie Unwelcome. Nautilus, the #1 Amazon Prime TV series, was based on his treatment.Mark was also co-presenter of the award-winning Bestseller Experiment podcast, which has inspired writers all over the world to finish and publish their books. Born in London, he lives in Kent with Youtube gardener and writer Claire Burgess and a declining assortment of retired chickens.You can find Mark here: https://markstaywrites.com/all-the-links/The Green Room can be found here: https://markstaywrites.com/the-green-room/And Creative Differences podcast can be found here: https://markstaywrites.com/the-creative-differences-podcast/His books: SF&F and horror: https://markstaywrites.com/books/ Robot Overlords, Gollancz, 2015The End of Magic, Unbound, 2019The End of Dragons, Unusually Tall Stories, 2024The End of Gods, Unusually Tall Stories, coming 2025The Crow Folk, The Witches of Woodville I, Simon & Schuster, 2021Babes in the Wood, The Witches of Woodville II, Simon & Schuster, 2021The Ghost of Ivy Barn, The Witches of Woodville III, Simon & Schuster, 2022The Holly King, The Witches of Woodville IV, Simon & Schuster, 2023The Corn Bride, The Witches of Woodville V, Simon & Schuster, coming 2025Film & TV:Robot Overlords, 2014, Tempo/BFI: https://markstaywrites.com/robot-overlords/Unwelcome, 2023, Warner Bros: https://markstaywrites.com/unwelcome/Nautilus, 2024, Moonriver, Disney, Amazon Prime and AMC (based on my treatment): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15286302/ Support the showJoin me on Substack – here – for more insights into writing and being published, as well as mindset tips and tools. You can subscribe to get access to much more from me, including workshops and coaching.If you would like to show your love for the podcast, please consider buying me a coffee through BuyMeACoffee.com. This gives you an opportunity to make a small, one-off donation – you are not committed to regular payments. Making the podcast earns me no money, and in fact costs me a fair bit, but I do it for the love, and because I have such fun talking with wonderful authors. Even if you can't afford to buy me a coffee, simply letting me know that you love the podcast means a lot to me. Please take a moment to leave a star rating, write a review, or share the episode with others you know who will benefit from listening in, or you can tag me in social media when you share an episode that you love with your followers.My website is http://www.zoerichards.co.uk where you can discover how you can work with me, and you can find me on TwiX and Instagram as @zoerichardsukAnd finally my debut novel, Garden of Her Heart, is out now and you can buy your copy here.Happy writing, and may the wo…
And don’t forget, you can watch my Creative Differences interview with Zoë here…
This month’s special guest Zoë Richards reveals the biggest mistake in her writing career…
TRANSCRIPT
MARK: What’s the biggest mistake you’ve ever made in your writing career?
ZOË: Doubting myself. So, many years ago, and I’m talking. I think, around about 22 years ago, Writing Magazine had an offer from an agent that you could send in up to 3000 words. So I sent off to her 3000 words, and she came back. And now I reflect backwards and it’s like, oh, she gave me such incredibly good advice, but I didn’t get the “Well done, Zoë, you are a Gold Star student.” So because because I was brought up with the coercive control of “you are not good enough unless you are the star student.” When I came home second in the year, I’m sure you can guess where this is going. Second in the year out of 145 kids and I said I came home I came second in geography, and my dad’s answer was, “What are you going to do next year to be first?” And there wasn’t a smile in that response. So I was always expected to be the best in class. So this agent didn’t make me best in class. So I believed I wasn’t a writer and I didn’t write for a few years. So I would say, anybody who gets rejection, remember, first off, if they give you a nuggets, store the nugget. You might not be able to accept what they’ve told you today, but at some point you’ll be ready to accept what they’ve told you. And she told me, was write what you know. I can tell that you’re writing something now that you don’t know anything about it. So either write something you already know about or go and research what you’re trying to write about. And I took it as being, I’m no good at writing. She wasn’t telling me I was no good at writing. She was telling me it was obvious I didn’t know what I was writing about. And they’re are two distinctly different things. So anyone listening who’s thinking, oh, I’m useless because I’ve had a rejection: what are they telling you? And then secondly, it’s only their opinion. And if you are 100% sure you’re right and you’ve written good stuff, keep going. But I think we’ve always got room to improve.
MARK: Now, listeners, if you’re thinking this is incredibly good advice where I can get more of this? You have a podcast, don’t you? So let’s give that a quick plug. Zoë, tell us about Write, Dammit.
ZOË: Well, yeah, it’s called Write, Dammit because I needed to remind myself to write, dammit. And I actually did the podcast because the government created something called Integrated Care Boards, and the one I worked for was told it was over establishment and needed to reduce its numbers. So a load of us were made redundant. Nobody’s ever made redundant in the NHS, so it was a bit of a shock to us all. And I was doing a job I loved with colleagues I adored. And so I thought, well, I can’t sit around and do nothing whilst I’m looking for a job and bear in mind; my kind of job, I was the only one in the country, so not the kind of job that you can get lots of work doing. So it was very, very difficult for me to find an identical job. I was having to reinvent myself. So what I did instead was start a podcast, and I learned what I could and discovered that if I could do seven, no, if I could do eight podcast episodes I was doing better than most because the majority of people stop at seven episodes or three months of running a podcast. So I said, right, I’m doing it for four months, and I’m going to do eight episodes. So we’re now on episode 127 and it’s 18 months old.
MARK: Yeah, this is episode three and I’ve still got the will to live, so I think we’re doing alright.
ZOË: Yeah, you’ve done one before though. I think you’ll keep this one going for sure.
This month’s special guest, Zoe Richards is unusual in that she loves writing a synopsis. Here, she gives us a few top tips…
TRANSCRIPT
Mark: You recently tweeted, “Am I weird in that I quite like writing a synopsis?” Yes you are. Can we discuss what it is you like about writing synopses and any top tips for writing them?
Zoë: Again, I think it might be my career that helps are the reports I would write. I always had to write an executive summary to the report, so that meant that I had to take something that was anything from a three to six page report. So we are talking short compared to a novel, but often my reports would start at twenty pages, and then I’d whittle it down to what’s the real crucial information these exactly need to read. And then I’ve got to produce something like about a one-hundred word, a summary synopsis of what the report’s about, but one that is going to make them want to read the rest of the report. Because they receive so many reports, they’re not going to want to read it. So I do have an advantage, don’t I? Do you use, Scrivener?
Mark: I do indeed, yes. Big fan.
Zoë: So, you know, on the way I’ve set mine up, you know, on the top right corner it has a little box that says synopsis when you’re writing each chapter.
Mark: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Zoë:So I just write a sentence or two in there about what’s the purpose of this chapter. And then once you’ve got all of your chapter one or two sentences, I mean, the idea of it being there is for the corkboard, but actually forget the corkboard. It’s a place for you to then gather… So I’ve just written a chapter today, and the chapter is to to raise the emotional stakes in the story. So I’ve written a couple of lines in, into that little corner box that’s headed ‘synopsis’ and then when I come to write the synopsis, I just pull all of these sentences out. If I can’t necessarily add anything to the synopsis through adding in what that chapter is about, then it doesn’t need to go in the synopsis. So is it moving it forward? But also if it’s not moving the story forward enough, do I need the chapter? So it helps me to do that kind of thing as well.
Zoë is the author of Garden of Her Heart, and host of the podcast, Write Damn It! An experienced coach with more than 35 years working on mindset, Zoë shares a ton of practical advice for writers including how to deal with self-doubt and rejection.
WE DISCUSS…
How stand up comedy helped Zoë’s writing
How to rethink your attitude to resilience
Great tips for writing a synopsis
Writers’ flow and getting started each day
Building characters using their childhood trauma
How to get people to show up at book events, and much more…